- Looks like BNP leader Nick Griffin and his fellow fascist lackey Mark Collett have been let off after being charged with incitement to racial hatred.
Which would tend to suggest that whoever brought this case is a raging moron. How the hell is it possible to fail to secure a conviction against a couple of mini-Hitlers? Did they seriously think just going "he's the leader of the BNP, therefore he's a racist" - though perfectly valid and true - was going to be enough to stand up in court? Bumbling fools, the lot of 'em. (Though at least now there's the possibility that the BNP will be lulled into a false sense of security and do/say something REALLY stupid that they CAN be done on...)
33 Comments:
To say they were 'let off' indicates they were guilty. Funnily enough the idea of a trial is to ascertain guilt or innocence. I think you might find that by law they were found innocent. Unless you think you can just make up the laws to suit yourself. But hey this is a 'free' democratic country, or so we are instructed to believe.
They will gloat. and tension will rise. and people will get hurt. Because the law is badly written and applied by cretins.That said though, We shouldnt try to ban these dirtbags even though they wouln't hesitate to do the same to us. They are peeing themselves at our expense, and all we can do right now is sit, and watch, and groan.
as the jury couldn't decide on a verdict, it could be you only need some ignorant fucks of similar beleifs to cast doubt and they 'get off'. There are plenty of people in that part of the country with similar views
Anonymous #1 - "get off" was not meant to have any particular implications, but as you mention it, yes, yes I am pretty certain that the leader of the British National Party, with its long history of racism, has incited racial hatred at some point in his career. He may well be innocent on these charges, and yes he is still innocent until proven guilty, but I have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to fascists.
Chris UK - no, the jury were probably right to let them off on these charges. Read the post again and you'll see I'm accusing the people who brought the prosecution of being a bunch of cretins, as they evidently didn't have enough evidence to secure a conviction. In something this high-profile, this is pretty stupid.
the cretins are even more stupid than you think. They now announce a retrial on the 'hung' charges. How can they justify this? Do we just keep going until we find a jury that convicts? This is plain and simple persecution. Perhaps we could choose a jury. George Galloway, Abu Hamza, 'sir' iqbal sacranie, ken livingstone could be selected for a fair unbiased opinion. It only our money they keep pouring down the drain.
anon@10.15, could you at least give a nicname?
Anyway, it's normal to go for retrials on hung juries, that's what no verdict means. It also, of course, means that there's a slice of the jury, possible even the large majority, that think they're guilty.
Free speech is something I'll defend, but it can only go so far. "All blacks are bastards" is ignorant stupidity. "Kill the black bastards" or "run em out of the country" is something I'm not too keen on, the less eloquent idiots then go off and do it.
But then, anonymous comment boxes are great, aren't they?
according to the protestors, they outnumbered the BNP supporters by more than 2 to 1. but I saw only the supporters on the telly bulletins and only heard the supporter's cheer on the radio. The BNP have learnt their media lessons the hard way, but they have been learnt.
MatGB (so thats not anonymous is it?) If you listened to the reports the judge would have accepted a majority verdict so to say maybe a large majority would have found them guilty is incorrect.
Not all 'hung' verdicts go to retrial. The CPS has to decide if there is a 'reasonable' chance of obtaining a conviction. If they have been found not guilty on half the charges and seeming that the other half are very similar I don't see how an expensive retrial would serve any public service.
Having taken an interest in this trial I don't recall any charges or evidence of anyone saying 'kill the black bastards' or any of the other comments you throw out at random. Try and stick to facts not fiction. By the way my nicname is anonymous.
Long Live Free Speech!
Lets remember a couple of points and I will try to limit as this could be viewed a sub-judice!
What these two guys actually said (see the BNP website for the full speeches) were no worse than what I have heard down my local boozer. I fact, what is said down my local boozer is worse as this is in public, the speeches made by the BNP leader and activist were made in private at a closed meeting!
It was also agreed by the defence team, prosecution team and Judge that EVERYTHING contained within the speeches were in fact the truth. (I urge again to view the speeches in their entirety). It was also agreed that the truth is no defence!
This trial would not be out of place in Mugabe's Zimbabwe!
Regardless of how you feel about Griffin and Collett or the BNP, This is a victory for free speech. The decision for a retrial is total idiocy! This will only show the public that they are being persecuted by the state, again Mugabe comes to mind!
The point is they were tried on several counts, on some; where the jury could not agree on a verdict, there is going to be a retrial, on others they were found not guilty. They have not been let off.
Does "let off" have any specific legal meaning? As far as I'm concerned, it means they were not convicted. Therefore they are, by definition, innocent on those charges.
At the same time they are both members of a party with a racist history, I am 99% sure that both are racists, but this is very hard to prove in court. Not that I necessarily think that people should be locked up simply for being racist, please note. I'd prefer it if every member of the BNP spontaneously collapsed and died - along with bigots of whatever stripe - but they're perfectly entitled to their stupid views as long as they don't use or encourage violence and intimidation to promote them.
I have no love lost for the BNP, but I must admit I thought from the very start that the evidence for this case was very flimsy. Much of what was said was true or difficult to disprove, it was said to a private audience and there didn't seem to be an attempt to get them to do anything specific and most of the rhetoric was against a religion (which doesn't do itself any favours) rather strictly racial. Griffin might be an evil **** but he isn't stupid, unlike Hamza who seemingly thinks it is okay to tell his followers that it is okay to kill all non-Muslims if they feel like it, their sacred duty even, with extra points for Jews, a term he claimed he used in error when he meant Zionists. Hopefully he won't get off the hook, if you'll excuse the pun. They should have caught Griffin him making one of his infamous holocaust denial speeches. There is a rumour doing the rounds that the BNP were on to the TV mole by the time the speeches were recorded, which meant that Griffin et al were more careful than usual. Enough to provoke but not enough to be convicted. I don't think they are that clever myself.
Just watching sky news and you have masked muslims outside the danish embassy with placards saying 'kill those who insult the prophet' and 'slay the cartoonist'. If there was any consistancy in british law these people should be arrested. That is far worse than the BNP pair. Why do they feel the need to have scarfs over their face. These people are the danger.
Nick Griffin impresses me like no politician has in years.
When did you last hear a politician who deals in TRUTH?
Whe did you last see one who was not AFRAID?
When did you last see one who had any slight interest in ENGLAND and its way of life?
What a shame I live in an almost totally "ethnic" part of London where there is no BNP candidate I can vote for!
Can ANYBODY tell me where to find "democracy"? It seems to have gone missing from my area of late ...
The Fox - if Nick Griffin loves England so much, why does he choose to live in Wales?
I wonder if this is a cry for help from "The Fox". If you put together the words HE SHOUTED, you get: BNP AFRAID TRUTH. ENGLAND ANYBODY.
Was this a subliminal admission that the BNP are wrong and this green and precious land belongs to all who call it home?
Interesting couple of days eh? Hamza on trial,the race hate and ignorance bill, BNP do an OJ, print a cartoon and get death threats,enough to test the most liberal free thinkers with the contradictions! For my money, I can, now see racial tensions reaching a point at which we may see some seriously unpleasant happenings- bloodshed, bombings,riots, right wing extremists gaining seats on councils......will someone please turn the heat down before any of this kicks off! Ill judged laws, ill spoken rhetoric, and people having to take sides- its going to be a long hot ugly year!
Justin, half the problem is a large proportion of recent immigrants will not be happy until our 'home' is furnished with their 'values'. The very 'values' they say they are escaping from as they are being persecuted. If, unlike me you are happy to change your customs, traditions, laws to appease these visitors, then fine. But remeber how 'infidels' are treated in their native land.
Anonymous@7:05 - I, unlike you, am unwilling to give up the decidedly British tradition of toleration to appease nutty extremists of whatever stripe.
Or could it be ENGLAND is AFRAID ANYBODY want TRUTH then BNP
Why not go for anagrams?
THE BNP RANT - A FUDGY BADLAND IRONY
Or even
A BALDHEAD BNP NUT - AND FRY NOG I TRY
Sounds plausible...
Some of them are not 'nutty extremists', those, I tend to find stood outside embassies with headscarves calling for YOUR death. So you would be quite tolerant if your council said you should put up 5 immigrants in your house without asking. No one asked me or anyone else for that matter wether I was that unhappy with this , yes green and pleasant land, that I wanted to alter, by force my culture or traditions.
I don't want islamic/sharia law, I'm quite happy with what I had. The problem isn't my tolerance its the tolerance of a religion that feels that cartoons demand death. Thats intolerance. Its not for me!
Come on moderate muslims, condem these lunatics. If its not done in the name of your faith let us know.
Good grief. (And I thought Harry's Place commenters were pig-ignorant flamebaiters...)
But I'm not sorry the fascist bastards got off - locking Griffin up wouldn't have done anybody any good. Fascism has to be defeated on the streets; the law is mostly irrelevant here - if not actually counter-productive - and any measures it does provide can easily be turned against the Left. This case has very little to do with anti-fascist mobilisation and a lot to do with state management of the acceptable boundaries of political protest. The fact that, in this case, the unacceptable protest they're trying to police actually is unacceptable is secondary.
Every now and again I get one wandering in. Always rather tedious, it must be said - especially as they never seem to know when to piss off away from places they're not wanted. Yet more irony...
Thats the tolerant society we live in Nosemonkey! There are alot of people who's views I find offensive but I have to TOLERATE them. Expecting them just to piss off just doesn't work.
Anonymous BNP loon - it would appear that your call for moderate muslims to condem the recent nonsense has been heard:
"This has nothing to do with Islam at all," Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora told Future television. "Destabilising security and vandalism give a wrong image of Islam. Prophet Mohammad cannot be defended this way."
"Overreactions surpassing the limits of peaceful democratic acts ... are dangerous and detrimental to the efforts to defend the legitimate case of the Muslim world," the 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference said in a statement.
"Should we burn and destroy things? Setting fire to embassies and destroying them is wrong. The solution lies in diplomacy, not in guns," Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said. "That (violence) is what those who seek a clash of civilisations want."
"The placards that were on display were quite disgraceful and in our opinion seemed to constitute a clear incitement to violence, even murder," said Inayat Bunglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain umbrella group.
The Muslim Council of Britain has also called for the Metropolitan Police to arrest those inciting violence.
'Anonymous BNP loon'
Try and think of a truthful way to insult me.
Most of the condemnations have only been made because of massive PUBLIC opinion against these marches. They were not made when the marches took place!
And I don't see why the MCB are calling for these people to be arrested. Do we have to wait for their approval. Surely its a police decision. Or are they one and the same.
Perhaps you could DEBATE on this blog instead of just insult.
We have all seen where insults gets us.
Yes - debate gets us precisely nowhere, because you appear to have a delightfully set world view which no amount of reasoned argument will alter.
If a diverse group of leading Muslims denounce the protests as you demand (and despite what you say denouncing them as the protests take place, considering they're still going on) then you dismiss them as too little too late. You also criticise the MCB for calling for arrests after you (I assume you're the same anonymous person throughout) said "If there was any consistancy in british law these people should be arrested" - which is precisely what the MCB have said.
"Denounce this!" You say. "But you must denounce it before I call on you to denouce it, and you mustn't denounce it in a way that I decide, post facto, not to like, even if that way is a way that I myself choose, before deciding I don't like it".
You, sir, are an idiot - as amply proven by your random capitalisation of odd words (unless you're a reject from the 18th Century, but your sentence construction's not elaborate enough for that).
Oh, and you still haven't told me why Nick Griffin lives in Wales if he loves England so much.
In short: you really do need to learn what debate is in order to engage in it.
'You appear to have' is just a personal opinion.
AS for the MCB calling for prosecutions. I call for the police, not me, not you, not the MCB to call and carry out prosecutions on the basis that an offence has been commited.
As for the timing of condemnations I am only making a point that a large number of people seem to have jumped on the bandwagon as public condemnation has grown regarding these 'demonstrators'.
Why I have to defend or not Nick Griffin for living in Wales,I have no idea. The best person to answer that would be Nick Griffin. I don't particularily care. It is not relevant to my arguments.
And by the way if I am only an idiot for occasionaly capitalising words then I take that as quite a compliment.
"I call for the police, not me, not you, not the MCB to call and carry out prosecutions on the basis that an offence has been commited."
Which is, erm... precisely what the MCB are doing.
As for the bandwaggon thing - the MCB denounced the protests surprisingly quickly for an organisation filled with idiots. They also did so rather more quickly than the government which, via Jack Straw, was if anything providing excuses for the demonstrations.
So, why does the MCB come in for criticism for doing exactly what you are doing and exactly what you called for them to do?
It may suprise you but I do agree with you with regard to the Jack Straw thing. I am not actually critising the MCB. Its the Met that I am criticising for not taking swift action. The media seem to imply rightly or wrongly that we have to wait for the MCB to ask for these idiots to be arrested. But that is not a critism of the MCB. It annoys me that a number of politicians wait for the public response before they make their response. This response is not theirs it is just media led.
The one thing that does confuse me a little is why the threats against the UK. No one published the cartoons in the UK and the government , well Jack Straw and Peter Haine condemned the cartoons.
I'm still waiting for strangely rouge to explain the "plenty of people in that part of the country with similar views" jibe. Leeds? Hardly the Deep South in the 50s is it? Or is northernism okay these days, as long as it's aimed at those with white skins?..
(sorry I ain't been round much dear boy, been working y'know...)
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