Europhobia

Sunday, July 24, 2005

Jarndyce asks some interesting questions about the events of Thursday and Friday and comes up with some theories certainly worth considering.

14 Comments:

sean said...: He does make some interesting comments. But then he seems to claim that the guys on Thursday weren't suicide bombers.
Derr?

Here's what I appended to his post...

'Well as far as I know that's just plain wrong - about the non-suicidality. I have read a lot of stuff and - according to many reports only one of the four bombers made a serious attempt to save his skin by dropping the rucksack and then legging it.
The others apparently stood by the rucksacks as the detonators went off. Then they looked 'dismayed' and shocked. As you would if your attempt at suicide had just failed. One report has a suicide bomber lying over his exploding rucksack, hardly someone trying to save his skin.
Perhaps they knew that the detonators would go off but not the explosives. so they knew they would survive. But that beggars belief, why then have the explosives at all? Also they left ID all over the shop. Not something you would do if you intended to live and escape....
Am I missing something here? It seems that one of us is stupidly misreading all this. Could be me, I accept. But I think it's you.'; 7/24/2005 06:27:00 pm
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 7/24/2005 10:38:00 pm
Anonymous said...: actually, delete that i'm not looking to send people to their site. can you delete my comments?; 7/24/2005 10:43:00 pm
Jarndyce said...: Sean: I've answered you properly on the original post, but... By definition these guys weren't suicide bombers: they're still alive. It's therefore incumbent on those who suggest they were intending suicide to show some evidence. I haven't seen anything remotely convincing yet, not even one proper eyewitness account. And the non-suicide element is just one of several strange things about this week's incident, as I explain on the post.; 7/24/2005 10:51:00 pm
Anonymous said...: Re: Were they suicide bombers....

Well, there are eye witness to some of the fizzle/pos/bangs. In at least one case, people saw it go bang on the guys back. The bus gut seems to have left his on a timer....

Given that the bombs were made by a single bomb maker (quite likely from past history of terrorism around the world), it is not especially improbable that he made a duff batch. Wether the detonators were crap, or the home made explosive had past it's sell by date..... apparently accetone peroxide is quite volatile and quickly denatures....; 7/24/2005 11:25:00 pm
Nosemonkey said...: wtf - done; 7/24/2005 11:35:00 pm
Anonymous said...: Is it just me who seems to be getting stupidly obsessed with all this terrorism malarkey? I can't help but go to every news site, every blog, every article about the al quieda etc, constantly reading and reading. Meh- I notice many many people locally being rather disinterested, and ignorant to what's going on... but that's good, cause they're doing that Blitzarian thing of 'getting on'. I'm sitting around convincing myself that Extreme Islamics are out to take over our nation, meanwhile I'm unable to comfort in my government keeping us safe because, y'know- of how troubling the whole Iraq thing is. I've always stuck by the invasion, simply because I like to be patriotic, to think we were freeing zillions of people from tyranny and giving them wonderful lives. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

So I'm getting deep into everything relating to the problems of the world, learning more about potential threats.. reading everything from lame-lefty losers who claim that, you know 'the bombs have nothing to do with asian people, it was probably done by Oldham Athletic, or Serbian Schoolchildren' - to the ramblings of the far right, who've managed to write engaging propaganda. I trust no-one and despise them all, but I can't even move to a remote holiday Island in case that gets bombed as well.

Meh. Obsessing. Wouldn't it be wiser for us to all care a lot less? The materialists, the chavists, the everyone-else doesn't care.. I long for the days when I'd read The Sun and believe in their patrioticness; I just feel lost.

I've also come to the conclusion that the USA is at a pretty low risk.. (should I say that?). They just seem to have things solved- i.e. immigration, the behaviour and views of their thriving and peaceful islamic community, their intelligence (hahahaha, did I just suggest Americans have superior intelligence? What has the world come too!??)

If things get any worse I may become a Liberal Democrat.; 7/25/2005 12:42:00 am
sean said...: Hah, Dan

(Is this Dan Davies, btw?)

I am eXACTtly the same. This is probably my 109th post on Europhobia, frinstance, and capable as Nosemonkey is, he isn't normally THAT interesting.

I'm just obsessed with the bombs, like you. Like you, I've also convinced myself that the Islamics are about to take over the country. At least once a day I start muttering to myself about 'internment' and 'bloody multiculturalism' and even 'Enoch was right' - then I go to Tescos and a perfectly sweet charming polite friendly Muslim guy helps me pack my shopping - and I curse and hate myself for being a horrible fascist.

Then I go back to my flat and read jihadwatch or www.1924.org and I get all het up again. It's just not healthy.

And I really don't know what to think. Take these polls today about British Muslim feelings. I comfort myself when they say only 6 per cent actually want to kill me. then I leap from my seat and I think bloody hell 100,000 British Muslims think I'm a kafr and want to kill me! kick 'em out!

Then I remember that so far only 60 people have died from Islamic terrorism in the UK. That's less than the number that probably die in croquet accidents. Then I remember that three of these fucking bombs went off in my street, practically, and I get all angry again.

So you see, you're not alone in being a bit labile and emotional and obsessive.

In my heart of hearts, I do fear that multiculturalism has failed in some deep way. It was such a great idea, it seems to be the future, yet does it really work? I am having grave doubts.

I think it only works if there is a core identity underpinning it. and that's where you are right about America. For all its faults, America bangs into peoples heads the idea that YOU ARE AN AMERICAN. All that flagwaving stuff, all the pledges of allegiance, all the schoolyard patriotism that we deride as naive and vulgar - does have the salutary effect of forging an identity. False or crass it may be, but it works. Mosques in America have God Bless America written on them.

I want to see pictures of the Queen in mosques. And in Muslim homes.

But we don't. Because multiculturalism (that word is too long, i must just call it WANK from now on) because MULTIWANK in England doesn't do any of that. We just let people be what they want, cause we don't have faith in ourselves: too many lefty cunts don't believe in this country, and sneer at patriotism, and deride symbols of Britishness etc etc etc That's all well and good and sophisticated, but if you tear down the temple you gotta replace it with something else. What do these people have to replace the old symbols and meanings of Britishness? Wayne Rooney?

If we don't believe in ourselves then we can't expect Muslims to do it for us.

But we are reaching a crisis. Not just in the UK but across Europe. Holland is approaching a terrible abyss. Denmark is heading for race war. I'm not being inflammatory - I was in Copenhagen recently and the race relations were terrible, truly awful. Never felt such hatred and tension. And this in... Copenhagen?

The problem IS Islam. It will not assimilate. It cannot, because of its inherent superiority/inferiority complex. Add in the West's errors in Iraq, Israel's behaviour in Palestine, the rest of it, and the future is fucking bleak.

But this country can pull itself together. I think it will. I know what you mean about despair but... we have to accept what this country is. Essentially white. Essentially Judaeo-Christian. Historically royalist. A tolerant liberal democracy, prone to occasional punchiness, which speaks English. Once we all agree that (within reason, and given the vibrsnt arguments of democracy) we can have faith in our own identity, and we can tolerate others.

There I go again. I've just done another mad long comment on a blog. I never used to do this before the bombs. I'm fucking losing it, like you.

Maybe there's a self help group. Terrorism-Obsessives Anomymous. The TA.; 7/25/2005 01:15:00 am
Anonymous said...: Perfectly stated.

MInd you, I like the motto on the Edith Cavell statue - "Patriotism is not enough, I must not hate" or some such. She said a prayer for the firing squad and told them face to face that she forgave them.

*That* is what this country is about.

The thing is that in terms of creating a society, the US is often better {sounds of rioting} -everyone bangs on about the treatment of the black community in the South up to the 60s, but the treatment of the Catholic population in NI was very simlar. The difference is that in the US they spend an enormous effort to try and fix it. In this country we just pretend that bad stuff only happens elsewhere. Hence Deepcut......

The heart of multiculuralism is *separate development*. Afrikans anyone? It says "you don't belong to OUR group"; 7/25/2005 09:29:00 am
dearieme said...: "everyone bangs on about the treatment of the black community in the South up to the 60s, but the treatment of the Catholic population in NI was very simlar". Come now; Protestant councils disadvantaged Catholics, and Catholic Councils Protestants: each was able to be Irish in its own way. Multiculturalism, really.; 7/25/2005 10:38:00 am
Anonymous said...: Sean, glad I'm not the only one going insane. Weirdly, I think I agree with everything you say.

Have you read this?
http://www.boris-johnson.com/archives/2005/07/enlarging_on_th.html#more

Seems to have some very good points from Boris Johnson.

Anyways, glad I'm not the only one who's become obsessed with this, it's silly really. However, I don't get that comfort that they've 'only killed 60'.. because I still think that there are millions of people travelling through that tube system EVERY DAY and there WILL BE MORE bombs, I don't think we can really doubt that? And I have lots of family and friends, like we all do, travelling through that system every day.

I don't even like sleeping. Gone are the dreams about girls, now I dream of global terrorism. HELP.

d; 7/25/2005 12:31:00 pm
Anonymous said...: "Protestant councils disadvantaged Catholics, and Catholic Councils Protestants"

The B specials & RUC were "disadvantaging" catholics with sticks, dogs, firebombs and shooting them on occasion. Oh, and fitting them up for any crime that was too hard to solve.

Oh, and I'm a Unionist.; 7/25/2005 12:58:00 pm
Anonymous said...: "Protestant councils disadvantaged Catholics, and Catholic Councils Protestants"

The old 'one side as bad as the other' mentality - continuously used by Brits to absolve their country of any responsiblity toward NI.; 7/25/2005 10:47:00 pm
Nosemonkey said...: Although I obviously can't speak for all Brits, I'd imagine most of us would take the attitude towards Northern Ireland that yes, Britain got up to some deeply unpleasant stuff over there, but that doesn't excuse the sectarian violence on either side. I'd also imagine that most Brits want as little to do with any of it as they possibly can, and can't see why the hell we didn't hand the whole sorry mess over to UN or other international jurisdiction years ago. More trouble than it's worth. (And personally I've always rated Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley as equally cuntish and unpleasant.); 7/25/2005 10:56:00 pm